[Darin Detwiler] Welcome to Spoiler Alert! I'm Dr. Darin Detwiler.
[Callin Godson-Green] I'm Callin Godson-Green.
[Darin Detwiler] And we are here in Chicago for the National Restaurant Association. It is quite an event. I mean, there's so much stuff going on outside, but what is going on inside? Everything and more. I mean, there's technology I've never heard of and some I don't even know what you're supposed to do with it. Biggest of names, small names I've never heard of.
[Callin Godson-Green] Brands, brands, flyers, vendors, everything.
[Darin Detwiler] Samples.
[Callin Godson-Green] Most importantly, I would say.
[Darin Detwiler] And guests. And guests. We're here with Richelle Toriyama. Welcome, Richelle.
[Callin Godson-Green] Thank you for having me. Great to see you.
[Darin Detwiler] How's your experience here going so far?
[Richelle Toriyama] It's been wonderful. I've eaten a lot, seen a lot of different friends that I haven't seen in ages. I mean, even you, even though we live so close to each other back in Southern California.
[Darin Detwiler] Yeah, disclosure, we actually live, what, 15 miles away from each other kind of a thing? 15 minutes. 15, oh, even better. Yeah, well, that's a big difference in California. Yeah, 15 miles, 15 minutes is a big difference. We've had so many conversations talking about everything from startups and different expansions and different food safety needs, but you've got a wealth of experience in different areas. For those who are watching this and have no idea who you are or why we're talking to you, what's your background? What do you do?
[Richelle Toriyama] So yeah, it goes back really to my high school days. So I started as a server in Reno, Nevada. I worked in a sushi restaurant. Go figure, I'm in food safety now. But yeah, I started as a server. And then When I went to college, I studied nutritional science, but also at the same time, I was a waitress there as well in Arizona. After that, I got a job with Steritech. So I did third-party food safety audits and operational excellence audits for about 7 1/2 years. I was lucky enough to get to do a lot of North America. So I was in Canada, Mexico, Hawaii, and then the West Coast of the US. While I was there, I did go back to school. I was just trying to see what else, what other knowledge I could get. So I did my MBA and I got a job with Denny's and I oversaw brand protection and regulatory compliance for them for the West Coast and international. So very similar territory to what I had at Steritech. That was one of the best experiences of my life. The team that I had in our food safety department is truly the most remarkable, talented individuals I've ever met. And they really shaped not only me professionally, but who I am today personally. And I'm forever grateful for Janice, Marianne, James. And so I just wanted to say thank you to them and to give them a shout out. And then I worked in food safety tech and now I'm on my own. So I am focused now on the Toriyama Group, which is a food safety consultancy providing training, audits, and then just also like fractional work or high-level oversight to the food safety program to really just help make sure that their brands are safer and more efficient and, you know, deliver to the guests a great guest experience and keep them safe. And that's just really important.
[Callin Godson-Green] Brilliant.
[Darin Detwiler] That's awesome. Are you hearing this more often, the fractional leadership, fractional work kind of stuff? 100%. I think that there are so many companies, big and small, that are really prioritizing. We need to acknowledge the value of having this wealth of experience partner with us because if we want to go from A to B, we had to think more in terms of our resources and our expertise.
[Richelle Toriyama] Absolutely. And there's a lot of brands right now that are emerging. the trends are changing too and what consumers want to eat in terms of diet. So there's a lot of, well, and I'm in California, so maybe I'm in my bubble, but there's a lot of healthy chains that are like starting and they're emerging and they maybe have 10 restaurants and next thing you know, they're 25 and they're growing so rapidly. They're onto their 80th restaurant and they're like, oh wait, we don't have a food safety department. We need to get that. And I'm so fortunate that the people that I've talked to have really seen the value in that. They want to have safe food for their guests. They want to provide that incredible guest experience. They know that they shouldn't even be opening their doors until they can, you know, make sure the food's safe and do your line checks and make sure the refrigeration's holding 10th and summer's coming up. So, you know, that's when refrigeration starts to go down. And there's just a ton of things that, you know, we really, I think also the consumer is far more aware now. Yeah. So they want to know that where they're choosing to eat, they're getting one value for what they're paying for, but also that they know that they're not at risk and their family's not at risk. And I think that's one of the best parts of what we do is that we're able to let people like really feel warm and comforted knowing that they're safe to the restaurants that we service.
[Darin Detwiler] So it's amazing when you look at like social media and how many people will be, I'm looking for this, I'm going to be in town, I'm looking for this. You know, people contact me, hey, where's a safe place to eat sometimes, right? But I'll see messages where it's like, I'm going to be in Long Beach, I'm looking for gluten-free falafel. And I'm like, okay, it's very specific. But someone says, you need to go to this place off of Maple or whatever, you know, they all sell you. It's like, wow, it's really cool. And we've had this conversation before, how So companies are not just like, we're going to bring on this new menu item or add this new ingredient. No, we're going to flex and make sure that we have a gluten-free option, we have a keto option, or all these different healthy options. And California is definitely one of those places where there's what's on the menu and then there's the what the customer really wants. And if there's that disconnect, that could be Totally.
[Richelle Toriyama] And I mean, I will say this, I'm just a foodie at heart. Like since I was a child, I mean, I have the story of when I was growing up, my mom like gave me my first bite of salmon when I was a baby and like my face lit up. So I like truly really love food. That's how you know. Yeah. I'm a big eater. But and so yeah, anybody coming to Long Beach, I definitely have some great food recommendations, not only safe, but really delicious. And you know, we've gone out to eat a couple times and we enjoy the dining experience together. And I think it's just really something that's like part of life that's super enjoyable. And I, just love food so much. Like this industry, I almost am selfish in a way that like I need it to survive and thrive because I personally need my hobby to exist, which is eating out. And I just want to know every time like I'm working with people that really care. And I think that that's what majority of people do want. They everybody wants to do the right thing. They want to serve safe food and they want to make the guests happy. And it's exciting that we get to be a part of it. I never thought I would be in food safety. It's not like a role that I grew up saying, like, one day I think I'm going to go be a third party food safety auditor and then just continue my career. But it's been extremely rewarding and it's led me to like evolve and meet people in ways I hadn't and understand the industry in such a unique way and have a different perspective. And so like, Yeah, I'd be curious, like, what would you like to eat if you ever came to Long Beach?
[Callin Godson-Green] Gosh, anything Californian, such as Californian burritos. When we were in Long Beach, actually, for IAF feed that time, I feel like we had like American food. And I was like, I don't know what, like, what do Californians eat? And everyone was like, salads. And I was like, all right, salads.
[Darin Detwiler] When we were out on the, we were out on that. Dock kind of thing. That dock area, the waterfront. And it was a great opportunity to bring a bunch of people together, but it was very California seafood, a lot of avocado.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah.
[Darin Detwiler] Shock. And it's crazy because the whole Southern California, especially the coastline, even you think, oh, there's one kind of theme. No, you go to the next town over and it's got a different taste or a different priority on produce or seafood or whatever. But the experience is one thing that in our lifetimes, you say things like, we're at War II. No, the pandemic. In our lifetimes, people were really challenged in terms of what I'm willing to compromise on and what I'm not willing to compromise on. And no, this is important to me. My experience, the safety, the brand reputation, whatever it is, and to see it kind of continuously evolve because of new challenges. The Olympics coming up, another new challenge.
[Callin Godson-Green] Huge one.
[Darin Detwiler] Especially when you start thinking.
[Callin Godson-Green] The World Cup.
[Darin Detwiler] In the World Cup? also, I think a Super Bowl is coming to LA pretty soon as well. And you start thinking about the traffic.
[Callin Godson-Green] I literally said say the traffic. I was like, oh, here we go.
[Darin Detwiler] The traffic patterns. I mean, we already see examples where, well, deliveries are happening at this time of the day because we're going to save money on gas. Okay, but if the restaurant's not open that time of day, then who are you delivering the food to? Right? And how are you dealing with temperature control and rodent and pest control? And there's all these issues that come up in terms of like chain of control and ownership of these things. And theft, loss, product loss, right? And then, okay, that's an issue with me and the distribution company. Hold on, but they're distributing this farm stuff and their name is on the packaging. So now you've got multiple parties in addition to the customer that are being impacted by these so seriously external sporting or rural events that are going on, gas prices, you know?
[Richelle Toriyama] Oh, man, that one hurts. I don't have an electric car yet. So that one is a, it's a.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah. You can't get away from it. Like what else can you do? Yeah. Especially in California.
[Richelle Toriyama] But yeah, it does like, sometimes it does lead to letting people think they should take shortcuts because of those high prices and extra time on the road. And those are the things that like we want to help prevent and avoid. And tons, you're doing a great job of being proactive on the risks involved with these big events coming up. I mean, I think sometimes we don't. It's like very exciting that it's happening, but then all the logistical preparation is just like sometimes lost. And I'm super excited because the Olympics are very close. I'm going, I pick out one event. Oh. Gymnastics. Very random. No, it is men's handball.
[Darin Detwiler] Oh, okay. I would never have guessed that.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, I wouldn't have either, but it's very close to me and it was one of the tickets I could get.
[Callin Godson-Green] You don't understand. You know, you got the rules.
[Richelle Toriyama] I think it's gonna be fun, like a little bit of like dodgeball kind of throwing kind of stuff.
[Darin Detwiler] There's like 18 events in Long Beach, but they also have the Grand Prix. Oh yeah, that was like a couple of throws.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah.
[Darin Detwiler] Where they'll close down a whole area and have a racetrack. So there's a lot of disruption that goes on there. But I think that with the disruption though, It becomes difficult to differentiate between risk and hazard. Right.
[Richelle Toriyama] Interesting.
[Darin Detwiler] I saw a very good analogy, right? It's a hazard if there's a shark in the water. It's a risk if you're in the water with a shark.
[Richelle Toriyama] I take a lot of risk, Lynn. I surf. That's why.
[Darin Detwiler]
You're in town of Huntington Beach, right?
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, my friends actually, they were running the Jack Surf Pro and this is like the first year I think ever that there was a shark sighting and they had to close it for a day. Yeah, I guess I take a lot of risk every day, which.
[Callin Godson-Green] I feel like that's like an interesting example as well, because like anyone, I obviously don't surf, but if I went to California and was surfing, sharks come to mind, right? Like anyone like thinks of eat, they'd be like, oh, what if there's a shark here? It's very front of mind. And there's very few shark incidents in the world ever. Food safety incidents are prevalent all the time. And how often does someone go into a restaurant and think, what if there's a food safety risk here? The traditional consumer typically doesn't. Obviously, anyone in our industry, we think about it more, but like, why do you think that is?
[Darin Detwiler] Wasn't it crazy though that there is a one shark sighting and you'll shut down the entire event? But in the food context, Not too many years ago, I went to a fast food restaurant and their sewage was backing up and they had cardboard all over the people who were taking the orders between them and the food area. And it's like, no, Why won't you shut that down long enough for the, whatever, the plumbing guy to fix the issue? You know? And then you'll hear things like, but our job is to continue this and do this and do this at the expense of this. Like, okay, hold on. What's that phrase? Fast? Friendly and accurate, and I would... I would say that food safety is probably part of the, if not accurate, definitely all of them. if you're ignoring the risks and the hazards to do business as usual, then you're no longer really doing business as usual.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, that's unfortunate. And I've seen that more often than I would have liked to walk into restaurants doing audits or just being aware of certain situations like that. And it's like, what do you think it is? Do you think it's that people weren't willing to do it? They didn't want to lose sales. They were told to keep operating. I mean, I'm sure it's a combo of all three or.
[Darin Detwiler] I come down to one of two reasons. That person either doesn't know or they don't care. It really is not too many variations of that.
[Callin Godson-Green] But sometimes I feel if they don't care, it's because they actually don't know, because how could you not care that, if you knew the risk of sewage in a restaurant and how sick and like that, it could kill people. If you still don't care, then maybe that's a...
[Darin Detwiler] Okay, but look, my regional manager, my district supervisor is not seeing the sewage problem. Okay, but someone standing at your counter with their cell phone is now telling the entire world, you've got this on social media. And now the headquarters, the corporate headquarters are going to find out. So, you know, hold on. Maybe your immediate, right now, in front of you, user experience is just as important as what people in your corporate office in another state's going to find out?
[Richelle Toriyama] Do you think that the evolution of technology and social media has heightened the awareness of food safety across the board? Therefore, brands now are choosing to be more proactive against it because.
[Callin Godson-Green] Obviously, I feel like consumers are reactive, proactive, you know, they feel like they have to now because they're like, this could trend, although it's not the right, you know, like basis for it or mentality to have. better for everyone that they are doing it or being more, reactive or on the ball when there is an issue because of that fear of like, this could go viral easily. Any random person that doesn't even have any followers can put up something and it can just go crazy overnight.
[Darin Detwiler] Well, as the token old person at the table, I fear that there's too many companies where the leadership is still stuck in the like 1980s in terms of consumer awareness and not thinking about social media. You know, there was a day where The only three questions that a consumer would ask is, it the taste I want, will it fill my belly, and can I afford it? Now we're asking about, is it gluten-free? Is it local? Is it- High protein? Yeah, exactly. Is it ultra-processed? Is it this? Is it that? Is it safe? Is it part of that recall? Is it tied to, you know, that location? Is it, is there any, you know, there's so many more questions that the average Not just specialized, but the average consumer is asking. And I think that sometimes corporate leadership doesn't think about the idea that consumers are sharing their experiences, good and bad online. Like, look, this happened to me. Use this as a caution tale, you know? And that's how people are finding out about things today. So I think that it's kind of like, you know, It only used to be in the past, like a long time ago, it was like, yellow journalism, investigative journalists. And if you read that newspaper kind of thing today, I think we're bombarded with opportunities to find out about failures and about risks and hazards. But we still have problems like, for instance, There's a lot of concern over recalls. Recall information being stuck, we had a paywall, or someone not being very proactive about information. But people are asking, because again, even though people want to have these great food experiences, not just in California.
[Callin Godson-Green] New York too. Yeah. Down.
[Darin Detwiler] Oh, definitely. I think people want to take back some of the ownership of the experience that we've given up over the generations. Right? We're not eating the farm food. We're not eating the food from our county. We're eating food that comes from so far away. We don't even know how it's processed. I think that asking these questions is a way of consumers saying, hold on, we want to have a little bit more input on them.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah, take the control. Yeah.
[Darin Detwiler] But then I find it interesting because you have people that are entering the food industry, but they're also consumers.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah.
[Darin Detwiler] What have you found in terms of people that it's like they should get it, but somehow they're not getting it? in terms of you need to be doing this differently or you need to be using this technology or this mindset.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, it's a challenge. I think with right now in the world that we're in, costs are a big concern. And if you're new to the industry and maybe don't have the understanding of what to manage your P&L, it can be challenging. And then that's where I think people start to take shortcuts and they don't want to make the investment. But it's always been pay me now, pay me later. And in my time working in the industry and doing food safety, I've never seen anything work when it was pay me later. Yeah. And so I would really encourage all the restaurants to try to be proactive and take the opportunity to really think through how can we set up our operations make them efficient and easy for our team to execute, but also hold them accountable to do the right thing. Because I think that often we set these standards and we have these beautiful SOPs, but yet we're not actually holding people accountable to execute. And it's not always a slap on the wrist or anything. You know, I think that there's a lot of just opportunity for like kind coaching. And coaching goes a long way. And with the new generation that's coming in, I think it's awesome. They're also a lot are new to the industry and they want to learn. And so you have the opportunity to teach a fresh mind the right way, right when they come to work for you. And then that's the standard, and I think that kind of, when I was a waitress, I'm not going to lie, I wasn't the most food safe. I didn't get my ServSafe till, I think it was 2009. It was actually for, it was a final for one of my classes for nutritional science. So that was awesome. And then I was like, oh, I learned a lot in that class on what I should be doing. And then I worked for Steritech and I had an amazing trainer. And she was very tough. But she stuck to the rules. And I think from there, it was just embedded in me, like these are the standards and this is what you follow. And I think when you start to get that ingrained early on, it just carries with you. And I would hope that everybody wants to make those investments. You know, it might be slow out of time. So maybe you're doing, I don't know, the paper logs, and then you move to digital, and then you find something else that you want to incorporate. And it's just kind of that step-by-step process. You know, technology is a beautiful thing, but you have to want it, I think, first, and then it also has to be the right technology for your business.
[Callin Godson-Green] I agree.
[Darin Detwiler] Well, I think perhaps too many times leaders get struggle and get caught up in the reason and the rationale and the return on investment. And it's like, why does there have to be that? Why can't it be that, your passion is to do this, your mission is to do this, your prioritization is that, of course, to achieve this goal, you would want to invest in this technology. I mean, we've had conversations with people that look at it in terms of not only how technology can impact the speed of information, but also expand who's able to see this information and now take action before it's too late.
[Richelle Toriyama] Agreed. Proactive versus reactive.
[Callin Godson-Green] 100%.
[Richelle Toriyama] Absolutely.
[Darin Detwiler] You know, intentional leadership is right there. And if you don't have the tools to do. It's kind of like being a superhero and showing up and going, dang, I wish I brought this. Yeah. Sorry, I can't help. Yeah.
[Richelle Toriyama] That's it.
[Callin Godson-Green] I won't do anything then.
[Darin Detwiler] Yeah.
[Richelle Toriyama] No, it's.
[Darin Detwiler] What are you going to do, right?
[Richelle Toriyama] It definitely has to be easy for them to do the right thing.
[Callin Godson-Green] And that's a big part of it. Yeah. For operators, you know, sometimes we see people hire in a business management, probably the same for you. Someone higher up brings you in, you know, and it's like, right, that's that band-aid now saying with our system, like it, bring it in and like, right, perfect, that's done. It can't just be, it needs to be at all levels. Everyone needs to understand. And the person that is at the lowest of your business chain, per se, like you were a waitress, started as a waitress, so did I, they need to be able to understand how to do it. And it needs to be easier than what they're doing now. Because otherwise, I'm not going to do it. Like I'm 16. I, you know, like I just need my money in at the end of the week. Like thinking through to the operator from a business decision making perspective. is like the fundamentals to anything in food safety. I think whether it's like bringing in systems or just even coaching, training, you need to have their mindset. And I do think the most successful people, like we were talking earlier, start, are the ones that started at that lower level because they understand the need and even how to communicate with people, you know.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, and in my time in this industry, and you guys tell me what your thoughts are. I've typically seen those who invest in food safety and that take it seriously. And I hate to say perform well, but there is a way that we evaluate it to some extent. They typically do everything else pretty well too. There's a culture that's just like embedded in the system of these are like the right standards and this is what you're held to do. And so they just do, it like kind of naturally evolves and everything is good. And then sales are good. And then the guests are happy. And then they come back again. And then you have like more sales. And then you're just becoming this very, you know, well, liked, loved, and profitable business. And I've always admired those franchisees or operators that I've met that really engage with their team and then really just value what they're doing because it makes my job easier. It also makes it very enjoyable. And it makes it like, I'm happy to know that there's people out there that are just all about, they're all in and doing it the right way. And I'm a big believer in, you know, if when you do good, good comes back to you. And I think food safety is one of the things that everybody, it's a moral obligation. It's not something that you can just say, maybe I feel like doing it today or maybe I don't. And that's, I think the biggest thing is just, you know, making sure people understand that.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah.
[Darin Detwiler] Well, especially when you look at the idea of here's so-and-so over here who knows everything about food safety for a restaurant, let's say, and you got the bartender over there who's literally grabbing the glass and scooping the ice with the glass. And why aren't these two people talking to each other? There needs to be this kind of, we're all in this together in terms of, it's not, well, that's them, this is us. You're in the same company, you're in the same location. Why aren't you guys communicating better? And especially when you think about the fact that it's not just we're all in this together as employees in a location, we're all in this together in terms of All those employees are still consumers. And, there's companies that I've asked, why do you prioritize food safety? And a person will say, I feel really, embarrassed to say this, but, I feed this to my family and I don't want them to get sick by it. I'm like, why is that selfish? That should be the... Yeah, the bare minimum, exactly. Everyone should act that way.
[Richelle Toriyama] Yeah, if you wouldn't bring your family in to eat at your restaurant, then should you be serving guests? Yeah.
[Callin Godson-Green] Yeah.
[Richelle Toriyama] It's a very easy question. I think also, yeah, empowering the team too, to let them coach and train almost one another in a way that you're saying you're on the same team, right? So if somebody's doing the wrong thing, maybe just saying like, hey, like, we should do it this way, you know? I'm all about the teamwork.
[Darin Detwiler] Yeah, I think humor is important. And I'm glad you joined our team here for this episode.
[Richelle Toriyama] Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. This is awesome. And I love that I get to see you in Chicago.
[Darin Detwiler] Yeah, it's awesome.
[Richelle Toriyama] Maybe we'll have to hang out actually in Long Beach.
[Darin Detwiler] Maybe, Thank you for joining us and we look forward to seeing what your next adventures are, either on a surfboard or not. Thank you very much.
[Richelle Toriyama] Thank you. Thank you.
